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	<title>Comments on: Wakeham weirdness</title>
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	<description>The Universe, the Internet, and Academic Life</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Merrifield</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5554</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merrifield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 15:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have just been reading the RAS&#039; submission to Wakeham (http://www.ras.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=1474&amp;Itemid=1); what a mess!

Here was an opportunity to address Wakeham&#039;s prior head-on by spelling out in supported quantitative terms the benefits of astronomy to the economy in £/yr, the career destinations of Physics-w-Astronomy undergraduates, etc.  Not to mention making the case for pure science as a cultural activity.  Instead, the RAS has submitted a fairly random collection of anecdotes, cheaply held together by bullet points.  No value added.  No synthesis.  Not even a whiff of the word &quot;culture.&quot;

Even where there is an objective figure, they manage to undersell it.  Apparently, over his/her entire career, a physics graduate is worth £134K in extra tax revenue to the Exchequer.  Whoopee!  Why not multiple that by the 3000-odd physics students to point out that physics graduates are producing a steady-state value added of £400M per annum, which is rather more impressive?  And then point to the percentage of these students attracted to physics in the first place by astronomy to arrive at a figure for what we are worth to the nation through even this most basic of routes.

Then there are deeply alarming sections, like the part on &quot;leveraging,&quot; which, through a further random assortment of anecdotal bullet points, seems to be making the argument that the UK&#039;s astronomers are very good at getting things for free from NASA, which doesn&#039;t seem like a particularly good line to take if you are trying to make a case for maintaining or increasing UK astronomy funding.  

They can&#039;t even make up their mind about the long-running saga of how closely facility and exploitation funding should be tied together.  On the one hand, &quot;It is sensible that the funding of facilities (telescopes etc) be within the same Council as the funding of the grants to use those facilities.&quot;  On the other, &quot;The grants line which funds this effort, together with the use of the facilities, needs to be protected from the large fluctuations in financial pressure that often occur due to overruns etc in the large facilities.&quot;  

As usual, the IoP have put in a rather professional and convincing job.  Apart from anything else, it actually addresses the questions Wakeham had asked in the order in which they were asked!  Sadly, however, the IoP mostly steers clear of astronomy, and makes a strong case for supporting mainstream physics.  In a cash-limited World, that isn&#039;t likely to do us any favours either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just been reading the RAS&#8217; submission to Wakeham (<a href="http://www.ras.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=1474&amp;Itemid=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.ras.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=1474&amp;Itemid=1</a>); what a mess!</p>
<p>Here was an opportunity to address Wakeham&#8217;s prior head-on by spelling out in supported quantitative terms the benefits of astronomy to the economy in £/yr, the career destinations of Physics-w-Astronomy undergraduates, etc.  Not to mention making the case for pure science as a cultural activity.  Instead, the RAS has submitted a fairly random collection of anecdotes, cheaply held together by bullet points.  No value added.  No synthesis.  Not even a whiff of the word &#8220;culture.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even where there is an objective figure, they manage to undersell it.  Apparently, over his/her entire career, a physics graduate is worth £134K in extra tax revenue to the Exchequer.  Whoopee!  Why not multiple that by the 3000-odd physics students to point out that physics graduates are producing a steady-state value added of £400M per annum, which is rather more impressive?  And then point to the percentage of these students attracted to physics in the first place by astronomy to arrive at a figure for what we are worth to the nation through even this most basic of routes.</p>
<p>Then there are deeply alarming sections, like the part on &#8220;leveraging,&#8221; which, through a further random assortment of anecdotal bullet points, seems to be making the argument that the UK&#8217;s astronomers are very good at getting things for free from NASA, which doesn&#8217;t seem like a particularly good line to take if you are trying to make a case for maintaining or increasing UK astronomy funding.  </p>
<p>They can&#8217;t even make up their mind about the long-running saga of how closely facility and exploitation funding should be tied together.  On the one hand, &#8220;It is sensible that the funding of facilities (telescopes etc) be within the same Council as the funding of the grants to use those facilities.&#8221;  On the other, &#8220;The grants line which funds this effort, together with the use of the facilities, needs to be protected from the large fluctuations in financial pressure that often occur due to overruns etc in the large facilities.&#8221;  </p>
<p>As usual, the IoP have put in a rather professional and convincing job.  Apart from anything else, it actually addresses the questions Wakeham had asked in the order in which they were asked!  Sadly, however, the IoP mostly steers clear of astronomy, and makes a strong case for supporting mainstream physics.  In a cash-limited World, that isn&#8217;t likely to do us any favours either.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5408</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies" rel="nofollow">http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael Merrifield</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5407</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merrifield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I could tell you, but then I&#039;d have to kill you... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could tell you, but then I&#8217;d have to kill you&#8230; <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: andyxl</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5405</link>
		<dc:creator>andyxl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>K17 : (i) You ain&#039;t foolin&#039; anybody (ii) Oh. Ah. Terribly Sorry. Oh dear that was worse. (iii) Re University side yes, re Lab side you jest. (iv) Like it.

How do you do those smiley things ? Mike M did it by accident, but you seem to have done it by cunning design .. ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K17 : (i) You ain&#8217;t foolin&#8217; anybody (ii) Oh. Ah. Terribly Sorry. Oh dear that was worse. (iii) Re University side yes, re Lab side you jest. (iv) Like it.</p>
<p>How do you do those smiley things ? Mike M did it by accident, but you seem to have done it by cunning design .. ?</p>
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		<title>By: KOMbat17</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5404</link>
		<dc:creator>KOMbat17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andyxl.wordpress.com/?p=195#comment-5404</guid>
		<description>Indeed I do. And I continually forget to insert :-) to soften what must seem harsh.
A(i): moron was self-depracating. I don&#039;t suppose you come across that trait very often :-)
A(ii) You ALWAYS seem smug! ;-)
A(iii) PPARC was as bad as STFC  in this regard
A(iv) Indeed - in-house lab managers have no time for inappropriate behaviour - they spend all their time hiding overspends :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed I do. And I continually forget to insert <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  to soften what must seem harsh.<br />
A(i): moron was self-depracating. I don&#8217;t suppose you come across that trait very often <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
A(ii) You ALWAYS seem smug! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
A(iii) PPARC was as bad as STFC  in this regard<br />
A(iv) Indeed &#8211; in-house lab managers have no time for inappropriate behaviour &#8211; they spend all their time hiding overspends <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: andyxl</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5403</link>
		<dc:creator>andyxl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oooo !!! Back in the knife box Miss Sharp !  (i) I don&#039;t think anybody called anybody a moron. (ii) Perhaps you might explain what was smug ... (iii)  I am perfectly well aware that SOME senior University staff can be Machievellian. People are people. This is why we need to avoid structures that make it worse. (iv) I am not accusing any lab managers of inappropriate behaviour : I am talking about structures that make their lives harder. 

I have no problems with the labs or their staff. They are top-notch world class institutions. RAL and Daresbury should have Directors as well as the ATC, and they should continue a proud independent activity that depends less on political fortune.

Specially for my ATC chums : this doesn&#039;t necessarily mean I think the University should  do what the ATC does instead. Legal ownership is almost irrelevant. The ATC already runs as a quasi-autonomous entity, and we are all rather proud of it.

K17 : you do of course have the advantage of me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooo !!! Back in the knife box Miss Sharp !  (i) I don&#8217;t think anybody called anybody a moron. (ii) Perhaps you might explain what was smug &#8230; (iii)  I am perfectly well aware that SOME senior University staff can be Machievellian. People are people. This is why we need to avoid structures that make it worse. (iv) I am not accusing any lab managers of inappropriate behaviour : I am talking about structures that make their lives harder. </p>
<p>I have no problems with the labs or their staff. They are top-notch world class institutions. RAL and Daresbury should have Directors as well as the ATC, and they should continue a proud independent activity that depends less on political fortune.</p>
<p>Specially for my ATC chums : this doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean I think the University should  do what the ATC does instead. Legal ownership is almost irrelevant. The ATC already runs as a quasi-autonomous entity, and we are all rather proud of it.</p>
<p>K17 : you do of course have the advantage of me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KOMbat17</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5402</link>
		<dc:creator>KOMbat17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Very interesting to see your take on the in-house laboratories, Andy. Not the first time I&#039;ve heard senior university staff express this kind of smug, self-serving opinion. First, some of STFC;s in-house laboratories operate under very different rules from the behemoth in Oxfordshire. Second, it is naive to think that some universities do not also have massive conflicts of interest. STFC&#039;s most powerful committees are occupied almost exclusively by senior university staff and some of those staff make Machiavelli look like a pussy cat. I know few in-house laboratory managers that &quot;operate&quot; as effectively as most senior university professors. Having said that, I&#039;d like to thank you for explaining Wakeham to us morons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting to see your take on the in-house laboratories, Andy. Not the first time I&#8217;ve heard senior university staff express this kind of smug, self-serving opinion. First, some of STFC;s in-house laboratories operate under very different rules from the behemoth in Oxfordshire. Second, it is naive to think that some universities do not also have massive conflicts of interest. STFC&#8217;s most powerful committees are occupied almost exclusively by senior university staff and some of those staff make Machiavelli look like a pussy cat. I know few in-house laboratory managers that &#8220;operate&#8221; as effectively as most senior university professors. Having said that, I&#8217;d like to thank you for explaining Wakeham to us morons.</p>
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		<title>By: andyxl</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5401</link>
		<dc:creator>andyxl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>err... thats strange !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>err&#8230; thats strange !</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Merrifield</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5400</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merrifield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hmmm... needless to say, Wakeham questionnaires are not fully of smiley faces: I think your blog is editorializing, Andy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmm&#8230; needless to say, Wakeham questionnaires are not fully of smiley faces: I think your blog is editorializing, Andy!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Merrifield</title>
		<link>http://andyxl.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/wakeham-weirdness/#comment-5399</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merrifield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The VC thing is in hand, I hope.  Worth noting, though, that Q9 (&quot;Do you feel the current funding structure for UK Physics is effective in supporting the discipline as a whole and in fostering interdisciplinarity?  If not how could it be improved?&quot;)  and Q10 (&quot;Are you satisfied with the support that you receive from each council?&quot;) on the Departmental questionnaire provide quite broad invitations to comment.  The Review&#039;s clarifications to the IoP make it clear that &quot;support&quot; should be interpreted more broadly than just &quot;do they give you enough cash,&quot; so give a channel for reiterating concerns about peer review, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The VC thing is in hand, I hope.  Worth noting, though, that Q9 (&#8220;Do you feel the current funding structure for UK Physics is effective in supporting the discipline as a whole and in fostering interdisciplinarity?  If not how could it be improved?&#8221;)  and Q10 (&#8220;Are you satisfied with the support that you receive from each council?&#8221;) on the Departmental questionnaire provide quite broad invitations to comment.  The Review&#8217;s clarifications to the IoP make it clear that &#8220;support&#8221; should be interpreted more broadly than just &#8220;do they give you enough cash,&#8221; so give a channel for reiterating concerns about peer review, etc.</p>
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